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YotsubatoSupra
Joined: 29 May 2015
Posts: 4
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 Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject: Banned for being gay |
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So today I had just installed the new BF4 patch after a long time not playing the game. So in my excitement I went to the server browser and found a 32 person rush server to play on because that is the best player cap for rush. I joined your server. After playing several rounds the discussion of my sexuality was brought up when my boyfriend was banned for mentioning gay porn. Through my admittance that I was also gay I was permanently banned from the server! For using the word "gay."
Upon visiting your empty teamspeak to voice my discontent over the incident, I then visited the forums to find this posted by Super Wabbit.
"For some reason the use of the word "gay" has been picked up by nearly every online gamer. Generally it does not carry the full on hatred or bigotry associated with it as do other words such as "fag." But it is still derogatory and in the realm of hate speech."
My confusion was unfounded. Now this is really troublesome because gay in its own right has no derogatory connotations in any such way. Gay means happy but is also a descriptive word to describe a homosexual individual. What does LGBTQ stand for may I ask? Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer. If the word gay is used in our own community, than why have you demonized its use?
I understand your intentions. But the permanent ban is a little over reactionary isnt it? At the very most it should be a kick or a timed mute and if the player is insistent in using it after these light punishments then I can see a ban being reasonable. Being permanently banned for using gay in casual conversation was very irritating to say the least. I certainly was not happy about your attempts to over scrutinize without proper context.
When I registered here I was asked to fill in the blank you see below.
Fill in the blank: online gaming should be ___ for every player, no matter if they are winning or losing *
Being banned for talking about my sexuality is certainly in no regard Fun. |
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NTolerance
Administrator
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 1044
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JoeSwindell
Forum Veteran
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 1612
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
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| Posted: Fri May 29, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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You're right. All you have to do is come here and explain the situation, abide by our rules, and we normally lift the ban.
While a small, tiny, minuscule fraction of people use the term gay in a non derogatory manner, most don't. That is why our rules are in place. |
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MTLMortis
Forum Veteran
Joined: 25 May 2014
Posts: 515
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YotsubatoSupra
Joined: 29 May 2015
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Banned for being gay |
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| MTLMortis wrote: | | YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | Being banned for talking about my sexuality is certainly in no regard Fun. |
The server is not the appropriate forum to discuss sexuality. |
Please tell me more on where I can find the proper zones for free speech. I was unaware this server is hosted in Russia.
Last edited by YotsubatoSupra on Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JoeSwindell
Forum Veteran
Joined: 12 Sep 2005
Posts: 1612
Location: Roanoke, Virginia
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Well I would try www.google.com/maps and then type in free speech zone. You can then get directions to a free zone close to you. |
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DogShxtTaco
CH Administrator
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 8201
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:12 am Post subject: Re: Banned for being gay |
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| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | Being banned for talking about my sexuality is certainly in no regard Fun. |
Not for you, maybe, but overall I think that's a win fin favor of gameplay versus bullshit that doesn't matter in the context of the game (i.e. "fun" versus "not fun"). |
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YotsubatoSupra
Joined: 29 May 2015
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeSwindell wrote: | | Well I would try www.google.com/maps and then type in free speech zone. You can then get directions to a free zone close to you. |
Luckily I live in the progressive state of Colorado so my 1st Amendment rights are of first class.
But more importantly lets get back on the real issue here. I stated that a permanent ban is not really a punishment that fits the crime. A kick would be more than enough to let someone know who had no ill intent know that this isnt really a subject for discussion. Allowing them to quickly join back and finish the round. If the person persists on using the word then a ban is reasonable. Since you have no rules stated clearly what is and isnt allowed a less severe consequence is a better solution.
If someone were to use blatant words of hate such as "nigger" or "faggot" then a swift permanent ban is reasonable. |
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Super Wabbit
CH Administrator
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 3667
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | MTLMortis wrote: | | YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | Being banned for talking about my sexuality is certainly in no regard Fun. |
The server is not the appropriate forum to discuss sexuality. |
Please tell me more on where I can find the proper zones for free speech. I was unaware this server is hosted in Russia. |
This filter is designed to catch 99% of the trouble makers. It has been our experience that those kicked for saying gay will instantly rejoin and troll and then get banned anyways. So we deal with the issue in one step. We also believe that there aren't different levels of hate speech. Gay is just as derogatory as faggot or nigger. We acknowledge that some people get caught accidentally by the filter, but understand that this is a rare event. We do not want to play with people who use this term in a derogatory manner and you admit that its is mostly used that way by gamers. We don't give a shit if everyone has adopted 'gay' - it still doesn't make it right. We have not demonized this word, we have used it as a filter to remove bigoted players and to encourage a better quality of online gamer.
We see online games as being socially no different from a physical sport. If you went to a local park and started a pick-up basketball game with a bunch of complete strangers, you wouldn't use derogatory or bigoted language and expect to continue to play there. I don't give a shit if someone is anonymous on the internet, we're all still people and deserve to be treated with respect.
If you'll take a look at all the other ban posts, you'll notice that most of them contain a simple apology and that they respect the rules. They realize that the language they used is hurtful and have agreed not to use it. Those people get unbanned, no questions asked.
Mortis is right, the game server is not a place for this type of discussion. The forums are the appropriate place for this discussion.
I don't appreciate your comment that we're similar Russia. I think that if you took a second to get your head out of your ass you'll realize that we are probably one of the most tolerant gaming communities out there. So I'm not sure why you're trying to be so combative with us.
| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | Being banned for talking about my sexuality is certainly in no regard Fun. |
Understand that you were not banned for talking about your sexuality. You were simply banned by a word filter that we have found is very effective at removing assholes and bigots. While you don't seem to be a bigot...you seem to be spoiling for a fight. Feel free to try and start one in the Other Discussion forum about your sexuality as that would be a more appropriate place.
Additionally, you're First Amendment rights don't apply here:
| Quote: | | Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. |
Congress shall make no law - doesn't say anything about what a privately run game server and forums can do. We limit the hell out of people's free speech here all the time by banning assholes who say faggot and nigger! |
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Super Wabbit
CH Administrator
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 3667
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| I should add that, I apologize you were caught by the auto-banner and that you've been unbanned. |
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Super Wabbit
CH Administrator
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 3667
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Super Wabbit wrote: | | I should add that, I apologize you were caught by the auto-banner and that you've been unbanned. |
On second thought...looking at your chat log, you seem like you're trolling. Care to explain?
| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | May 29, 2015 4:46pm UTC Global : So if I let everyone on the server know that I am gay, am I going to get banned?
May 29, 2015 4:45pm UTC Global : I cant stop
May 29, 2015 4:44pm UTC Global : masturbating |
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DogShxtTaco
CH Administrator
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 8201
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | But more importantly lets get back on the real issue here. I stated that a permanent ban is not really a punishment that fits the crime. |
In this case, as it does in nearly every instance, it seems like the stupid filter did its job. I'm in favor of keeping the ban. |
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YotsubatoSupra
Joined: 29 May 2015
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Super Wabbit wrote: | | Super Wabbit wrote: | | I should add that, I apologize you were caught by the auto-banner and that you've been unbanned. |
On second thought...looking at your chat log, you seem like you're trolling. Care to explain?
| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | May 29, 2015 4:46pm UTC Global : So if I let everyone on the server know that I am gay, am I going to get banned?
May 29, 2015 4:45pm UTC Global : I cant stop
May 29, 2015 4:44pm UTC Global : masturbating |
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Yeah, if you review the chat log further it was a wisecrack after another player asked what his team was doing.
Might I ask? Is Cracker and Honkey also a bannable offense?
I am not certain if you had any MOTD greet players informing them about potential offenses that can result in removal from the server. If you do I cant remember it being there, maybe its not noticeable. Maybe you can add rules while we stare at the loading screen or have the MOTD post at the beginning of each round, just so everyone is clear on the rules that are expected. |
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Super Wabbit
CH Administrator
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 3667
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | | Super Wabbit wrote: | | Super Wabbit wrote: | | I should add that, I apologize you were caught by the auto-banner and that you've been unbanned. |
On second thought...looking at your chat log, you seem like you're trolling. Care to explain?
| YotsubatoSupra wrote: | May 29, 2015 4:46pm UTC Global : So if I let everyone on the server know that I am gay, am I going to get banned?
May 29, 2015 4:45pm UTC Global : I cant stop
May 29, 2015 4:44pm UTC Global : masturbating |
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Yeah, if you review the chat log further it was a wisecrack after another player asked what his team was doing.
Might I ask? Is Cracker and Honkey also a bannable offense?
I am not certain if you had any MOTD greet players informing them about potential offenses that can result in removal from the server. If you do I cant remember it being there, maybe its not noticeable. Maybe you can add rules while we stare at the loading screen or have the MOTD post at the beginning of each round, just so everyone is clear on the rules that are expected. |
The server description states the following and is displayed during each map load:
| Quote: | | Welcome to DontCamp! Serving Battlefields since 1942(2004). Join us on TeamSpeak at <ts3.dontcamp.com>. Any unsportsmanlike behavior can get you kicked/banned. Banned? To appeal, please vist our forums <https://www.dontcamp.com [dontcamp.com]> or TS. |
For the sake a brevity we think of this type of language is unsportsmanlike.
We also have several spam messages stating:
| Quote: | | Racism and/or bigotry of any kind will not be tolerated. No Warnings. |
Now this is a funny one, as we say no warnings, but give you a repeated warning...
Additional spam messages state how you can display our rules with !rules:
| Quote: | -- Dontcamp.com Rules --
Racist or bigoted language will incur a ban.
Any unsportsmanlike conduct will incur a kick/ban.
Don't fire into or out of main spawns. |
The rules are visible. I'm not going to call you out for not noticing them as it appears that most Battlefield players don't read server messages until they are kicked or banned. So you're nothing special for missing those messages. There's no real good way to make them more visible that I know of.
Like most words, intent will make the word offensive. So yes, Cracker and Honkey could get you banned. Of the 6 instances of "cracker" being used in the past couple of years, they all refer to an actual cracker. Honkey has been said 4 times and 3 of those were bans. |
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DogShxtTaco
CH Administrator
Joined: 19 Apr 2004
Posts: 8201
Location: Cary, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Super Wabbit wrote: | | Of the 6 instances of "cracker" being used in the past couple of years, they all refer to an actual cracker. Honkey has been said 4 times and 3 of those were bans. |
Good logging gets me excited. In the tumescent way. |
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Super Wabbit
CH Administrator
Joined: 18 Apr 2004
Posts: 3667
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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TIL: tumescent
No one has ever used this word on our server. |
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3rdRcn
CH Administrator
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 2887
Location: Peoples republic of Md.
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| Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Damnit DST, why do you have to use words that I have to look up?  |
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